EPISODE TEN - “HOW DOES THEATER CONNECT COMMUNITIES?”
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack, arts leader and visionary, is Vice President for Cultural Affairs for Arizona State University and Executive Director of ASU Gammage. In this inspiring and warm conversation, Colleen speaks with Hal about the safety measures she’s implementing for ASU’s audiences, the educational and outreach programs she is championing for children and families, and the thing she’s most hoping will change about the theatre in her lifetime.
In addition to her work at ASU Gammage, Colleen serves on The Broadway League's Equity, Diversity & Inclusion Committee, Government Relations Committee, the Executive Committee and the Board of Governors, Labor Committee and co-chairs the Legislative Council and Road Presenters/Intra-Industry Committee and is Arizona's only Tony voter. In 2020, she has served on multiple panels addressing human rights, justice, diversity, equity and inclusion and the future of Broadway; including interviews with W. Kamau Bell and Tony Award director Kenny Leon related to the pandemic of racism; and participated in the TheaterMakers Summit on getting Broadway touring productions back on the road.
Colleen is the recipient of numerous awards including the 2020 National Coalition of 100 Black Women Education Legend, 2019 Valley Leadership Woman of the Year, 2019 ASU West Pioneer Award.
Follow Colleen on Instagram @CJRoggensack. Look out for ASU’s upcoming season of performances at https://www.asugammage.com/.
TRANSCRIPT BELOW!
Hal Luftig:
Hi, everyone. This is Hal Luftig with my Broadway Podcast Network show, Broadway Biz, where every episode I will chat with my friends, some of the top theater professionals in the business about the business of Broadway.
Hal Luftig:
(singing)
Hal Luftig:
My guest today is Colleen Jennings-Roggensack, the executive director of Arizona State University Gammage. In addition to her work as executive director, Colleen also serves as a vice president for cultural affairs at ASU. I had such a blast with her when the Kinky Boots tour played in Tempe a few years ago. This has been one of the most inspiring conversations I've shared on the podcast. I'm so grateful to introduce Colleen on today's episode of Broadway Biz. So let's give a big Broadway Biz welcome to one of my favorite and smartest people I know, Colleen Roggensack. Hey, Colleen!
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Hi, Hal.
Hal Luftig:
How are you?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I'm great. Wishing I was seeing you in person.
Hal Luftig:
I know, me too, me too. But I was thinking about seeing you in person, and you know what I remember most, one of my favorite stories about you, is when Kinky Boots the tour... Actually officially, you were the first stop. We did our tech in Vegas, but then U Tempe was the first official stop. We had agreed that, you had said that if we came to Tempe early on in the run that you would wear the boots to make the curtain speech, and that I would join you.
Hal Luftig:
And so I put on my boots, which I still was toggling, because I don't know how women do it! And you walked on the stage from Stage Left, and I came on from Stage Right, and I looked at you, and I thought, "Those don't look like weird boots, she looks really good in those things!"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Thank you, Hal!
Hal Luftig:
It was a really great night. And we got to tell the audience that it was our first stop, and-
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
It was just terrific. And they loved you. They just thought that you were fabulous. Fabulous, fabulous, fabulous.
Hal Luftig:
... Yeah, yeah. Well it was a great warm house, so Colleen, let's just jump into this. Could you tell us, because I don't know this, how you got started, what was your path into theater, and how all that landed you in Arizona?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
You know Hal, it's interesting because my father was in the air force. So I lived in 13 states and two foreign countries before I went off to school, and my parents always believed that wherever we lived, and that included Naha, Okinawa, that we would just jump into the culture there, and figure out what was going on.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And the way they made us feel that we weren't always strangers, is they took us to the theater. And whether it was kabuki, or whether it was Broadway. And my first Broadway show was, actually I'm going to date myself, Ethel Merman in Gypsy. And I was little, very little, and my parents would take us. And sometimes they could... They were not very wealthy people, so we were never in the best seats. But I remember when they took us to Gypsy, the usher said, "You shouldn't have children at this show."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And my parents are like, "It's a musical, and our children are accustomed to musicals." And so that was my earliest venture into it, and the other thing was, my parents were fairly formal so we always had dinner at the dinner table, except the night of the Tonys. And we could eat off of TV trays. Not for the Oscars or the Emmys, but the Tonys. And I remember the Tonys back then because... And it's probably why I also love play so much, is they would do a section of a play. I just always had this really strong, vivid memory. So that was always a part of my life.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
But when I went off to school, I studied 16th century literature, and modern dance. So my parents knew I was doomed, they always felt like, "Please let her marry well! Because we don't know what she's going to do with those!" But as a result of my modern dance, I became more engaged in performances on stage, and I met an incredible person, his name was Shelton Stanfill, and Shelton actually, over the course of his career, ran Vienna Wolf Trap. He ran the Woodruff Center, he ran the LA Music Center, he ran two Cultural Olympics, and I met him when he was running the theater in Fort Collins, Colorado.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And he said, "You have such curiosity, you could actually do this work." And I said, "Well, what work is it?" I had no idea what a presenter was, or what the theater was, I knew it from being a dancer, and touring and doing those things. And we became friends, and ultimately he hired me for my first job, and I went from job to job to job, to this job at ASU, at ASU Gammage. And my first real goal was to one, always be involved with dance. Two, always be involved with live work on the stage, and I knew my life would be happy. And it is. That's the short version.
Hal Luftig:
I just have to backtrack, one question because I'm curious, when you went to see Gypsy with your family, what was the usher most concerned about that you would see this little strip number, or that you were actually seeing Ethel Merman? I'm not sure which he was the most...
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
No, I think she was really concerned about us seeing this little strip number. And my parents were like, "What are you talking about? This kid's seen so much work." My first work was actually Madame Butterfly, which we saw in standing room only seats, it was a long time to stand. And I remember hearing Leonard Bernstein conduct, and so I think she was just afraid of that. And here's a funny little story, has nothing to do with the theater, but when we were itty bittys, my brother and sister and I, we opened a magazine and there was someone in a bra, or someone... And we would go, "Ooh!" And we would giggle.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So do you know what my parents did? They took us to the museum. And they took us to the section of sculptures and statues and naked people, and we were so exhausted that we never oohed and aahed again. That was it.
Hal Luftig:
That was genius, yeah, that was absolutely... That was very smart of them. And how old were you, can I just ask a personal side, how old were you when you went to see Madame Butterfly?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Oh yeah, I was five years old. That was my first opera.
Hal Luftig:
My parents took us a lot to expose us a lot to theater too. And when I was about eight or nine, they tried the opera, and you know, New York City Opera was the opera for the people, and they took us to Madame Butterfly. Which, this was day before subtitles, so I kind of just had to follow along, or Mom had to whisper in my ear what was going on. And at the end, even as an eight year old boy I thought, "Mom. Why did you take me to an opera where the woman kills herself at the end in front of her child?"
Hal Luftig:
And my mom's answer was, "You know, I forgot that part!" "What, you forgot that part? It's the whole [crosstalk 00:08:26]!" And to the day she died, my brothers and I would get a huge laugh out of that. Whenever she would say something silly or mom-like we would go, "Oh right, and this is the woman who took an eight year old to Madame Butterfly."
Hal Luftig:
So you've been at ASU now for how many years, how long?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
28 years.
Hal Luftig:
Wow, wow. That is fantastic. And I must say to our listeners, you run such a terrific organization there. You could just sense it from your staff, to your audience members, everybody is there to embrace and enjoy theater, and whatever performance you might be doing. And it starts from the top.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I have great staff, I have great staff, and they are truly committed. Our mission, Hal is connecting communities. And so we connect communities through the amazing work, like Kinky Boots, that we put on stage. We connect communities through so many different ways that people really come to understand each other. And I just think... You know this, because I think we've sat together in the theater, but there's nothing like sitting in a seat with a lot of people, waiting for the curtain to go up, and you're going on a journey. And you're going on it together, and you don't know where that journey's going to take you?
Hal Luftig:
Speaking of that, how is ASU Gammage planning, have you guys started? You must have, to plan the safe return to live performances?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We absolutely have, and it's the work, I think of most theaters, in particular the theaters on the road. We have been training and putting together COVID practices. We have been training our staffs, we have been looking at everything from... Hal, who knew? We got into show business to learn about epidemiology, and filter systems.
Hal Luftig:
Right, right!
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Yeah, my life is very glamorous. But where people would put the circles on carpet, where people will stand, we're using UV ray lights to use it in the pit, to use it on the stage. We're in preparation mode.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
At the same time, as you will know, and you spoke about my lovely audience, we're in constant communication with our audiences. Where they get an email with a video from me, saying, "And this is what we're going to do when you come back. You will wear your masks, we will do touchless tickets, we will do pre-packaged things at the concession stand, we will have sprayed down your seats, we will..." Hal, and you know this, your listeners may not, we raised $9.6 million to put in bathrooms. Because Frank Lloyd Wright built this beautiful 3,017 seat space with 24 restrooms for women.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Hello, did not work. Did not work! And 40 for men. 40 stalls for men. 24 for women. So we built these beautiful stalls, and they did, we built these beautiful bathrooms. Well now, with COVID, we can't use them all, because we have to block them off. So we're back down to fewer bathrooms, it's kind of funny to us! But it's like, "Oh!" But that's like, part of that, part of that.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
But at the same time too, just like you have your listeners tuning in, we have said we will continue to remind people that art and culture is important to them. So we have this huge digital platform. so recently, we just had Daniel J. Watts who's up for a Tony, from Tina. And Lindsay Roberts, who's an amazing, amazing artist, who's been with us, with [inaudible 00:12:27] & Best, The Color Purple... I'm trying to think of all of the shows.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And we had them, I interviewed them, and then people could ask questions. And so we have an interviewing program, we're also trying to put Broadway performers to work. It's a frightening thing, Krystina Alabado who's in Mean Girls, is coming through town and she called and said, "I'm coming through, we want to just stop off and let's have a socially-distanced drink." And I said, "What have you been doing?" And she said, "Well, I've been working on a cabaret show." And I went, "Would you consider streaming it?" She said, "I would consider doing it." So we're going to stream her on the stage.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We're going to pay her, stream her on the stage, she's going to do her cabaret show, and then we're going to do a live Q&A. So we're trying to always let people know that we're still here. The theater is still here, and they, not only love it and miss it, but we actually have 16,500 subscribers who are just waiting.
Hal Luftig:
I was just going to ask you, it sounds what you do is terrific, about keeping people informed, posted, it makes them feel connected, it makes them feel not forgotten, and it's informative, which they love too. How, overall, would you say your subscriber base has responded to this pandemic and the like, and have you found that they're just as interested in keeping subscriptions, and coming to the theater, have you found some resistance?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
The answer is yes, yes, yes. They are interested, they want to come back. Now, there are some, who are either of a certain age, or their health will never allow them. I've read, when you talk about tearing up, I've had some dear, dear letters and emails sent saying, "You know, Colleen, I've been a subscriber as long as you've been here. It is the greatest joy of my life, but my health will never permit me to come back. Will never permit me to come back." And then I have others, irrespective of age going, "I'm ready. When you say 'open those doors' Colleen, I will be first in line."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I think you and I have done an amazing thing in bringing joy and wonder to people's lives, and now it's not an extra, it's a necessity. So that's kind of where everyone is, but just as you asked what kind of protocols are we doing? That's what they ask. "What will we have to do? Will it be safe, and how will we do it?" Some of them have said, "Well, let's not have any intermissions." And I said, "Well, that's sort of great, except if we're doing a three hour show, and the performers have to have a break." No, we can't do it without it. And also we cannot do socially-distanced. And I have some, again, wonderful supporters, and one of them who will remain nameless was at their beach home in California.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And they said, "Well, Colleen. You just name whatever the ticket price is, and the 50 of us will come in, and we'll get other friends and we'll pay for all the tickets and we'll just watch the show." I said, "That kind of defeats the purpose of connecting communities, and 50 of you in a 3,017 seat house!" But people... It's hard too, because as I just mentioned a couple of performers' names, I have become very close to people who come to our theater. Because as you know, Hal, it's my home. You came, we had dinner, we had a performance and then we threw a party to welcome everyone. And so people don't realize that it's just a lot of people who are trying to make it right now. And part of my job and responsibility is how to support them through this?
Hal Luftig:
This is one of the reasons I love you so. Because you think of things like that, like the staff and people who need to be paid, and what life might be like for them? And it's quite scary, actually, and everybody has their own way in and way out, but the general thing that I'm noticing is this level of anxiety because nobody... The anxiety of not knowing.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I want to just say one more thing Hal, because you know, Hal and I sit together on the Broadway League Board of Directors. And there are only 42 extra special task forces that we both sit on. And one of those extra special task forces deals with epidemiology. So one of the skillsets that we're all learning, and Tom Gabbard is our guru on that, is we are meeting with epidemiologists from Israel, Finland, MIT, ASU, Harvard, Yale to talk about vaccines, but to also talk about testing and tracing. And being able to test an audience, and test our actors and our musicians, and our crew. That will help us to open sooner.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So the vaccine will come one day. But in the meantime, we are experimenting with the testing and the tracing and making sure everyone is safe. And ASU does... I've been tested three times, we have a saliva test, I can walk into a building, get my test and be good for the day. And I'm also very curious, and have had some discussions about putting a company in a bubble. So you come, just like they did with Diana, you were in a bubble, you work, and you come to the theater, and you work, and everyone else has been tested, and go back. So we're imagining other ways to try and move us ahead, and back onto the stage.
Hal Luftig:
And protect everybody. You know, I would love your opinion on this because as you said, we're part of the committee that is trying to learn about more than I ever thought I would ever need to know! But I've also wondered, I remember after 9/11, and we all had a talk about how we implemented security in the theater, because people were very afraid that we would be sitting ducks sitting in a theater, 1,200, 1,500 of us, and it would be a perfect place for a next attack. So we had to really think about wanding people down and looking into their pocketbooks and things like that? And I remember, we all, as an industry were very concerned that, "Were we scaring the public by doing all of that as they entered the theater, or were we reassuring them?" And I'd love to get your opinion on how you feel about that same question as we come back from COVID. Are we reassuring them by doing all this, the temperature and the tracing, or are we just reminding people like, "Uh-oh, this could be a dangerous place for you to be?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I think that we are telling people, "We want to take care of you." And I remember thinking, "Oh, people are going to come to the theater." And we do mags, bags, and dogs. So we have bactometers, we have dogs, and we search bags. And so being very afraid of how people were going to respond, the first thing we did was, we sent all of the women subscribers little clear pack plastic evening bags that said "ASU Gammage" on it. And we said, "So when you come, bring your bag, it'll be really simple. It's very chic, we want you to come to the theater." And people they learn, they adapted, and more importantly, they felt safe. They felt like, "I'm going to come into the theater, the dog's already swept through, we've done this. I don't have to worry about anything happening. This is a safe space."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And I think they will feel the same way too with our protocols in coming back. Arizona's been interesting because unlike New York and how very smart your governor was, we didn't shut down. So we kept going, and our governor never said, "Wear a mask." Our mayor said, "Wear a mask." And we said, "You must wear masks." But it made it harder, and I think the impact has lasted longer. Now the whole country's back up, the rates are back up again, are rising. But they will go back down again. But I think that people are smart enough, and care for each other. Because the wearing of the mask says, "I care about you."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Not, "I care about me." "I care about you, and that's why I'm wearing one." And we've done some Gammage masks, and some other things, so yeah. I think our community, our audiences will be very happy to do that.
Hal Luftig:
Thank you, because that is good to know. As a person in this industry I always am concerned about what's too much, and what's enough to make them feel comfortable? And I hear you, and I think what you're doing is great. But it is a fine line, because you don't want people to get scared. But I agree with you, I think over time especially when vaccinations happen, it will just give that extra layer of, "Okay, we'll protected." You'll have to assume that most people in that theater will have been vaccinated, so that will help tremendously.
Hal Luftig:
Colleen tell me, what were you working on when the shutdown happened, and what were some of the things that you were looking forward to when it all had to stop?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Well, it's very interesting because we had just finished What's On This Island? And they had left us in Tempe and gone onto Vegas. And we were preparing for Mean Girls. And we were very excited, we had Mean Girls, Come From A Way, four weeks of Lion King... I mean, we had a lot of work ahead of us. And that was kind of the hardest part, because as you know, we didn't immediately say, "Okay, we're going to close down." We're saying, "Okay, March, we're going to shut down. But we're going to be open in June."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So all we did was hopscotch shows. So we hopscotched, and we hopscotched, and we hopscotched. And we're still hopscotching! I [inaudible 00:23:25] our dear friend Sue Frost, because my audience kept saying, "We're going to see Come From A Way." I go, "Yes, and you're going to see it now in June. And now you're going to see it in August, and now it's going to be October." That was kind of the hardest part of all of that, was being able to do that.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And I actually had been in New York, because Company was in previews, so it wasn't open just yet. And I'd seen Cambodian Rock Band, was at Signature, I went to see that, and I went to see We Will All Die at Second Stages. And then the city shut down.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So I was actually in New York as the shutdown was occurring, and I felt like I was getting the last plane out of Saigon, got out of New York and came home to... We were at first like, "No, no, no, I don't think we need to shut down." And then it was like, "No, we need to. And we need to do it right away." Yeah, so that's what we were working on, and we are still working on those shows, and making sure those shows come.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I think, Hal, that's going to be the tough job for us, is looking at what's going to come when the road opens again? And what kind of work will happen when Broadway opens again? And as you know, we're having a bifurcated Tony season, which I'm very excited about, and I'm going to dress up for.
Hal Luftig:
Oh good, are you really?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I'm totally going to dress up.
Hal Luftig:
Okay, I'll tell you what, if you dress... We did this with the boots, remember?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Yes, yes!
Hal Luftig:
You said, "If you come here first, I'll wear the boots." Okay, if you dress up, I'm saying it here on podcast, I will wear my tuxedo.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Great, great, great! Yes, I will be in a gown. I will be in a gown, like I said, it's the Tonys, so yes. All right, we'll send each other pictures!
Hal Luftig:
We'll send each other... Right, exactly! So moving along, if memory stands, you're very active with your local government representatives, which is another thing I just adore about you. How do you engage with them, can you talk a little about how you engage with them, and how you engage with them specifically about the arts?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Absolutely, Hal. As you know, I sit on the legislative government relations group for the League, but I have always been very active with my legislators. Because they are our authorizing environments, and both sides of the aisle. John and Cindy McCain, John was very dear friends, and he and Cindy supported one of our programs which we called, it's a first night program, Military Families First Nights. And we would have 200 military families come to a Broadway show on our stage.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And John and Cindy supported that, so he was just wonderful. But we have always spent time, I spend time with my legislators, not just here but also in Washington. I belong to Rotary 100. I am a Rotarian. I'm a good citizen! And so part of that is I'm a good business citizen, but John McCain, my governor, the mayor, all belong to Rotary. So I got to see them every Friday, when we would have Rotary, and John when he was in town. And we could talk about the arts. So that not the very first time any legislator saw me it was like, "I need your help, I need you to do this." But rather, "Oh, there's Colleen." Greg Stanton who is one of our representatives, woohoo! And he's been reelected, I was in his office, and you know when we go to Washington to advocate on the ill, often you're meeting with the aides. Because our legislators, in the house and in the Senate are doing work in the chamber.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So I came into his office with Jeff Daniels, and there were a group of other people, and I said, "Oh, I'm here to talk about the arts." And from the office, a second office I hear, "Is that Colleen Jennings-Roggensack?" And my colleagues who were with me went, "She knows you?" And I said, "They all know me. They all know me."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And so because when I sit down and say, "This is what's really important. And tax credits are really important for the making of work. And being able to make sure that we have healthcare for our performers, and all these things." They're not looking at a stranger. They're looking at someone that they know. And going to D.C. is quite a thrill, and it can be overwhelming. And I tell people, Hal, who go for the first time, I say, "Understand. The senator and the representative that you're going to speak with, they work for you. That's the first thing you have to remember. And not only do they work for you, but because we run a Broadway series, and at different points we're up to 22,000, I have the ability to speak to 22,000 voters."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And I always open my conversation like that, and they always go, "Okay Colleen, what do you want?" Yeah, so it's great, but we've had great legislators and Kyrsten Sinema is wonderful. She's really carried our water in terms of pension and things of that nature. And Mark Kelly, who will be going forward, I'm really excited to have him as well. But to get to know them, our governor had a meeting. And he was doing COVID meetings, and he was with select different citizens. So he had, I don't know how many people, we were on this Zoom thing. And they said, "Put a question in the chat if you have one for the governor."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So I put one in, and he didn't call on me, he didn't call on me, and my husband went, "Oh, maybe he's not going to call on you?" And he said, "I saved Colleen Jennings-Roggensack for last because I love Hamilton!" That's my governor! [inaudible 00:29:14], I said, "Yes!" And then my question to him was, "As you put your COVID taskforce together, will there be an arts representative? Because what we do and we bring to the community is not just the art that's on the stage, but many of us support our downtown restaurants and hotels and things of that nature?" And he said, "Of course, Colleen, you're on the taskforce." But I just think advocacy is something that we should be accustomed to doing all the time. All the time, and right now as you know, we have our Save our Stages legislation, which is sitting up on the Hill and who knows what will happen with that?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We have a restart bill as well. But to know that that's part of the gig. I was fortunate enough to be selected as one of three co-chairs for the state of Arizona, to help craft Joe Biden's arts policy. And his arts policy, which is on page 28 of the 98 page platform, Joe has an arts policy. And that is really, really, really important.
Hal Luftig:
Wow, I did not know that.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Yeah, he has an arts policy.
Hal Luftig:
I'm so happy you told me about that, because my next question was to ask you about, when you speak to any representative in the government. Local, federal, state, in my experience because I've gone to Washington with the league as well, and spoken to representatives and things like that. And it's always, the thrust has been always about, "arts matter" and "culturally", and things like that, and some respond better than others. Some of us, they get it, and some of them look at us cross-eyed, like, "What the hell are you talking about?" But I think, and I'd love your opinion on this, that since COVID, every single person in Washington has realized the economic impact that theater has on their community.
Hal Luftig:
No matter where they're from, there's a theater, either a local theater or a touring house near them. And they've started to realize how much we actually bring in, not only on Broadway for New York City, but even locally. And I'm sure in your theater in Tempe, when you're running, you're supporting a lot of other businesses. Has that new topic been helpful to you, a hindrance, how have you specifically handled that?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Hal, spot on, great question. Because not only has it been helpful, it has helped us in terms of locally, and talking to our mayor and our governor, wanting to open up just as restaurants have wanted to open up, and have. And since we have great weather, a lot of things are outdoors, but just as all of our hotels, but also the economic engine that we are. We put in $50 million annually into the city coffers. And that's not from ticket sales, that's from, "I hired a babysitter, I bought a new dress, I ate in the restaurant, I put gas in the car." Those are all the ancillary things as you know, our Broadway League, does an economic study.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So over the years, Gammage has contributed over a billion dollars into the economy of the city and the state. And we've always had great governors, who have spoken about that. Janet Napolitano who was also a subscriber, is one who would always say, "Economically, this is important. This is important to the life of the city, to our community. And not just spiritually, but economically." So it has helped a great deal. A great deal. And it gives us more partners, Hal. More partners when you're speaking to Governor Cuomo, when we're speaking to Governor Ducey to say, "We need to solve this problem, and we need to solve it because of all of us. Not just the arts in one narrow little box."
Hal Luftig:
I so agree with you, and I'm thrilled that you see it the same way I do, because for years it's always frustrated me. "How could they not see just from a business standpoint, an economic standpoint, what we bring into our local economies?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And the jobs, and everything else. And that's why we call it "show business".
Hal Luftig:
Well that's why... And this program is specifically about the "business" of the show business, yeah, yeah. That's exactly what it is. You were a part of the National Council of the Arts, can you talk about the way you approach these conversations as part of that community?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
You know what's phenomenal, I was fortunate that President Clinton appointed me to the National Council for the Arts, and I was the first western appointee. And Jane Alexander was the chair, and it was during what time, Hal, that we referred to as the "culture wars", or we thought it was at the height of the culture wars? With Mapplethorpe and Serrano, and all of those things. But the culture wars just never went away. So it was a really interesting and kind of baptism by fire, to belong to the council then, because we were granting federal dollars for the making of art, and at the same time, Jesse Helms was using it to bludgeon other political candidates over the head with saying, "Look where your federal dollars are going to? This horrible thing, or that horrible thing."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
So I feel very strongly about, not only am I a First Amendment baby, but I feel very strongly about artists, and how work is made, and that our federal dollars support the work of creativity. Because what we know now, and what everyone is learning through this pandemic that we're in, is creative minds are the minds that will solve these problems. It isn't science, technology, it's creativity, and that the artist and the creator, have a way of looking at things differently, that will make a difference. So I learned that greatly when going through the National [inaudible 00:35:40] of the Arts, and protecting artists. And as a result during that time, it was the highest budget the endowment has ever had. And it was 181 million, and now it's just 131 million. But then it was the highest, and we fought for it. And we believed in it.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And it was also art reaching out to the rural areas. So art not just being an urban activity, and the province of few, but the province of many. Because as you know, we do a lot of art education work. We see 35,000 schoolchildren during the course of the time. We have three different military programs I talked about Military First Night, but we also have Heroes Night, and we also have, we recognize the past generation, and we recognize the new generation coming in. So we do a lot of... We had Operation Date Night. So we reach a lot of different people in a way that no business can.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I think that's why other businesses long to be associated with us, Hal. Because we have that ability to do that, and we have the ability, the other pandemic we're going through is systemic racism, and we have the pandemic that we need to tell stories. So we come to understand each other. And what better way to do that than on the stage in a safe space? In a space that says, "Welcome. All are welcome here, and this is everyone's stories."
Hal Luftig:
I couldn't agree with you more. And just a little self-plug, an aside here. It's the absolute reason I was determined to do Children of Lesser God. Because ostensibly, it was about deaf versus hearing, but what I was really trying, hoping that production would say was, "Who do we listen to? And how do we listen? And who do we assume is the stronger voice, if you will?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Yes. And I loved that production.
Hal Luftig:
Thank you, thank you. I did too, but that's what I was actually hoping to achieve in that, is like, "How do we listen?" And in fact the tagline was, if you remember, "Start listening."
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Yes, it was, it was. And I remember you had a racially diverse cast, too.
Hal Luftig:
Yeah, Lauren Ridloff who played the deaf student... Well she wasn't a student, she was a former student, who was just a sign language teacher, has now gone on to be a big star. She has a film and she's on television a lot.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Wow, wow, Hal. That's fabulous.
Hal Luftig:
Because this is called Broadway Biz, I wanted to ask you, "How do you specifically marry the financial side of what you do with the artistic side? How do you get the artist what they feel they need, and yet still deal with the financial things that you must, like budget?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
One of the things too is just like you. I got into this because I love theater, and I love art. But I also knew that because I loved it, I had a responsibility to make sure it survived, it continued. And that meant budgets. And I really had to work very hard with budgets, and not only how we look at alternative streams, how we also work and cultivate donors. And because I'm a for-profit, and a not-for-profit, how I also work with the philanthropic community. And so part of that is looking at what comprises a season?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And Broadway is a big chunk of the financial revenue of a season, but also what our donors do, and then philanthropic organizations like the Wallace Fund gave us money, so we could look at how to sustain audiences. The Mellon Fund gave us money as to how we make sure we project all voices. That all people are heard.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
When I'm working with an artist on an individual project, for instance, Lemon Andersen, who won his Tony in Def Poetry Jam, and his play County of Kings was at the Public? Well he's with us in a three year residency of looking at creating and writing new work. I always say to an artist when they come to us, "What do you want, what do I want, and what do we want together?" And then we figure out that part that we want together, and I figure out financially, how to fund that part that we want together. But I need to know everybody's dreams, what they all dream, and they need to know what our mission and goals and values are to put that together.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We actually have a campaign underway called Restart Stages, because we don't have the Broadway revenue component, we've really been... Our donors have been exceedingly generous to us. And so we have been raising funds, in fact, Hal when you come back again, during the pandemic we raised money to redo the dressing rooms. I am so excited, they are so beautiful! We did new tiling and new... You know, [inaudible 00:40:55]? And people were really thrilled. They were thrilled, and we have donors' names on them, and it's just... They look beautiful. So they're waiting for you to come back.
Hal Luftig:
That you can do that in this time where people are just shrinking of their spending, because the funding is just not there, everyone is sort of losing a little something here, and yet you have... Through your sheer magnitude of your personality, have made this happen for that space. That is incredible.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
And again, I have incredible people who work for me, I must say that.
Hal Luftig:
To my listeners, this is why I am in awe of this woman. You just talked about marrying the financial with the artistic, does that ever impact your decisions when you're curating a season?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
It helps to shape a... Help to shape a season. So if we're looking at our Broadway season, I know we're going to have some big, lush, beautiful shows, like yours, and we're going to have some smaller, more intimate shows, like What The Constitution Means to Me. So we curate size and scope in that, so that when my subscribers come, I don't say, "It's going to cost you a million dollars to see this season." So that's part of it, but also, we like to look at things that are wonderful and joyous, but also things that are challenging. And things that make us ask questions of ourselves. So that helps to shape and scope this season, and what this season's going to look like.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We look a lot at families, and what kind of work would be great for families, and then we look at that next generation. And what are they looking at? And you know, Hal, one of the things I really wanted on my season? I saw the all-Yiddish version of Fiddler, and it was the most beautiful... I cried. I went with Ed Sandler, Ed Sandler and I went, and it was beautiful. And I went, "People need to see this on the road." Because to understand, when you talk about listening and language, and also what you bring to it? To me, that's the glory of theater, you also bring yourself to an experience. I loved that work, I loved that work. So we look at the span of things, the span of things.
Hal Luftig:
Nothing would make me happier, if someday we could play the Gammage and you and I can make another... I don't know what we'd wear? I don't know what the throwdown challenge would be for that?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
We'll think of something.
Hal Luftig:
But thank for saying that, and I really appreciate that. And I think you're right, especially in these times, how do we listen to people who speak differently, who look differently? And hear their story, how do we listen to their narrative? Colleen, I can't thank you enough for taking the time to join us today. I feel like I could spend days with you, and never absorb everything that you have to offer, so we may have to have you back. Thank you for taking the time with me today.
Hal Luftig:
But before I let you go, I have what I call the "rapid-fire questions", and there are three of them. And all I ask is that you don't overthink. I ask them, you answer the first thing that comes into your mind. Okay? Because that's what makes it fun. So here's number one, "What is your favorite musical?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Of all time's, Company. I love it, I have always loved it, I love the words, I love the performers, I love Company.
Hal Luftig:
Did you see the original, or what was your first exposure to Company?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
You know what? This is very funny, my very first exposure to Company, I was in graduate school, and the university needed a choreographer to choreograph Company. That was the first time I'd ever seen it.
Hal Luftig:
And so you were the choreographer?
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
I was the choreographer!
Hal Luftig:
That's no small task, how did you-
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I have to think back. I do remember, You Could Drive a Person Crazy, and I just remember that choreography, I just can't... I'll have to think a long time, long and hard. It's been a while, Hal! But yeah!
Hal Luftig:
... Boy, they were worried about Gypsy, I remember when I went to see Company, I was maybe 13, I guess? And that number, it was danced by Donna McKechnie. She's a great dancer, and it was very suggestive. Let me tell you, there was more to worry in that number than seeing Gypsy! That dance was very explicit.
Hal Luftig:
Okay, here's number two, "What is the wackiest moment you've ever experienced in the theater?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Okay, this may not be the "wackiest moment", but I was at the Kennedy Center, I was watching Whistle Down the Wind, and I was there with a friend, there was a man sitting next to me. The curtain goes down for intermission, this man turns to me and he says, "I have no idea what this is about." And I looked at him, and he said, "I have none." So he goes, "You have to tell me." He says, "I'm a businessman, I travel a lot, wherever I go, I buy a ticket to a show." So instead of going to the bathroom, I sat there and explained the entire first act to this man and he'd said, "Really?" Like he didn't sleep during it, like he just looked like he was completely at a loss!
Hal Luftig:
Oh, that is great! All right, here's the last one, and this is a little bit more serious. "What is something you are hoping to see change about the theater in your lifetime?"
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
You know Hal, I think with all of the work that we're doing at the League, in partnership with Black Theater Coalition, Black Theater United and Broadway Advocacy Coalition? I'm hoping in my lifetime that we see more diversity in terms of GMs, producers, presenters, executive directors... I really, in my lifetime. And I remember, this is another story, Margo Lion, who's no longer with us and was so very dear. She was so amazing, when we started the Diversity Committee, I remember her saying to me, "Colleen. I think this is going to be really hard. I don't even know what we're going to do?" And I wish that she was alive today, Hal, to see what we've done. I think about her every single time.
Hal Luftig:
Me too, me too. She was such a great mentor to me, and she gave me such great pieces of advice, both professionally and personally. And I do, I miss her every day, I think about her all the time, yeah, yeah. See, you're not going to stop until you get me to cry on this program, I see what you're doing, Ms. Roggensack! And it ain't going to work!
Hal Luftig:
Well once again, Colleen, thank you so much. I adore you, and I'm so grateful you joined us today, as I'm sure my listeners are. So be well, be safe, stay healthy, because this will pass, and we will be back.
Colleen Jennings-Roggensack:
Absolutely, Hal, absolutely.
Hal Luftig:
Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Broadway Biz. If you have any questions about today's episode, or the business of Broadway in general, let me know on Instagram, @broadwaybizpodcast. Or via email, at broadwaybiz@halluftig.com. Be sure to follow me @broadwaybizpodcast for updates on everything Broadway Biz, the business of Broadway.
Hal Luftig:
Broadway Biz is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Huge thanks to Dori Berinstein, Alan Seales, and Britney [Biggala 00:49:17]. This has been produced by Dylan [Murray-Parent 00:49:20] and Kevin Connor, and edited by Derek Gunther. Our fabulous theme music is by [Nell 00:49:26] Benjamin, and Lawrence O'Keeffe. To learn more about Broadway Biz, visit BPN dot FM slash Broadway Biz.