EPISODE THREE - “why are broadway tickets so expensive?”
This episode, Hal invites Maggie Brohn to the podcast. Maggie is the Executive Producer for Hamilton worldwide and Chief Operating Officer of Adventureland LCC, the lead producer for Hamilton and other Broadway shows. Hal and Maggie break down the roles and responsibilities of a general manager, reveal the story behind Legally Blonde's infamous "party bike", and try to answer that age old question, why are Broadway tickets so expensive?
Maggie's other recent productions include Derren Brown: Secret and The Cher Show. Previously, she was a partner at Bespoke Theatricals where she general managed over 20 productions on Broadway and tour, such as MOTOWN the Musical, Hugh Jackman: Back on Broadway, After Midnight, A Behanding In Spokane, and Venus in Fur. Maggie is on the Board of Governors and Executive Committee for The Broadway League, and a former Co-Chair of the Labor Committee, which represents producers in collective bargaining negotiations.
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Transcript Below!
Hal Luftig - Host:
Hi, everyone. This is Hal Luftig with my Broadway Podcast Network show, Broadway Biz, where every episode I will chat with my friends, some of the top theater professionals in the business, about the business of Broadway.
Speaker 2:
(singing)
Hal Luftig - Host:
Hi, everyone. My guest today is one of the best general managers in the biz, Maggie Brohn. Maggie is currently the chief operating officer of Adventureland LLC, which is the executive producer of Hamilton. I always have so much fun talking to Maggie. I can promise you you're in for a real treat with this episode of Broadway Biz.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Yay, hi Mags.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Hey, how are you Hal? Thanks for having me. That was the best introduction I've ever gotten to anything ever, so thank you.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Well, it's easy to do when it's true.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Well, thank you for having me on. I had to check my schedule today, because there's just a lot going on while we're all-
Hal Luftig - Host:
While you're homeschooling, really.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Exactly.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Yeah. As we said, I want to know when the kids learn how to mix cocktails, because I think that's a very, very important skill to learn.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Absolutely.
Hal Luftig - Host:
That is a very, very useful and practical learning tool. I'm sorry. In my house it is, anyway.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Anyway Mags, when I was thinking about having you on the show... I wonder if you remember this, too. But I have this image that I will never forget, and I just want to share with our listeners. So during the strike of... When was the [Blonde Strike 00:02:25]? What year?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
2008. 2007, 2007.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Seven, 2007. So it was a while ago. And it was over the Thanksgiving break. So especially with Legally Blonde, we had a lot of young girls and mothers with their daughters and grandmothers with their granddaughters coming to see the show. And instead of just having these patrons that we couldn't reach before we realize we had to cancel performances, I didn't want them to just go up to the door of the Palace Theater and see a sign saying, "Performance canceled."
Hal Luftig - Host:
So I told Maggie I was going to stand in front of the theater, and as people came up, I would explain, "I'm the producer, and here's what is going on." And Maggie said, "I'll do it with you," which was great. Except she was nine months pregnant. Do you remember this, Maggie?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Oh yes.
Hal Luftig - Host:
And people would come up, and they were first shocked that when we gave them this information... And we handed out a leaflet, just so they could read it when they went home and talk about refunds or exchanges and all that kind of stuff. But what was really funny was after they took this, they looked at Maggie like, "Wait, what's going on here?"
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
[crosstalk 00:03:51] a joke.
Hal Luftig - Host:
"Is this a joke? This woman looks like she's going to give birth any minute, and she's standing in the..." It was November in front of Palace Theater, handing out these things, nine months pregnant. Do you remember that?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Oh my God, I do. I remember so vividly. That was a bonding experience for us, one of many on that show.
Hal Luftig - Host:
One of many. Yeah, the others unfortunately we can't talk about on air.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I know. But it'll be in the book. It'll be in the book.
Hal Luftig - Host:
It will be in the book. That's right, that's right. I always say that, Mags. I'm going to write a book six months before I die, when I know if I have some disease or something. And I'm going to tell real stories, name names.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Name names.
Hal Luftig - Host:
But here's the deal. If they come up with a cure for whatever I have, I don't take it. [crosstalk 00:04:39]
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
You can't.
Hal Luftig - Host:
I can't, because no one will ever talk to me again. That's my fantasy. Yeah, yeah.
Hal Luftig - Host:
So hey, Mags, let's start at the beginning for our listeners. I'm sure a lot of people out there don't know what a general manager does. They may not have even heard of that title. So can you give us an explanation of what it is that you do, and what a general manager does?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Absolutely. So I think of the general manager as being the inside of the bicycle wheel. And then all the spokes go out from there and create a circle. We basically are hired by the producer, who has either gone to or is in the process of getting rights to do a project and hiring a team. And the producer comes to us and says, "Okay, what do I do?" I mean, some producers come to say, "What do I do?" Some know what they're doing, and then they just say, "Go do what you do."
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And what we do is we make budgets, we hire everyone, we make sure the set gets built on time, we make sure that all of the contracts are negotiated and in place. And we basically take the idea that the producer has with the creative team and we, on the ground, make the business operate. We do all the stuff before the show starts happening. And then once the show is up and running, we have someone who's going to theater every night. We have someone paying all the bills. We have someone talking to the cast and the crew and watching how much money is coming in through box office ticket sales. We will go with the producer to ad meetings to make sure that the marketing strategy that the producer and the advertising team wants fits in a budget. And also, some producers ask us to consult on it as well, because we've all been doing it a long time.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I basically feel like we just keep the train running in all ways. We get the train started, and then we keep it running. And we are middle management though, I will say, in that we manage up to the producers, who are in charge of everything, and then have to manage all the employees that make a show work, which... Hal just started to mention all the people, the actors. I can go further and talk about the 20 something unions on Broadway that we deal with and on the road and all of that.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
But we basically, as far as I'm concerned, are the hub of what makes sure everything gets done.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wow, what a great answer. What is the difference between, then, in a producer and a general manager?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Well, I'm glad you asked me that question, because it is different with every producer and every general manager, right? And some producers want to be intimately involved with every aspect of their project, including knowing what kind of negotiations you're going to do with your lead actor. And they want to know every step of the way. And then on the other hand, there are producers that say, "You have a budget. We've approved a budget. Go hire everybody for that budget. I don't want to hear about it unless there's a problem."
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And the former is like Hal, who... You and I were on the phone with a lawyer, who shall remain nameless, about a contract that shall remain nameless on Legally Blonde, where we were told that our hair was going to be set on fire if we didn't get the deal done. And then there are other producers who would never have gotten in the weeds like that to be a part of those conversations.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
The truth is the way the business has been structured... In the old days, the Manny Azenbergs of the world were producers and general managers, because general management was a smaller business. There were less aspects of each show. It was easier to put on a show, right? And it's just gotten bigger. You've got more departments. You need a whole team to manage things. But really, the only job that a producer cannot farm out to a general manager is raising the money. As far as I'm concerned, raising the money is the only job a producer absolutely has to do. Then, based on their pallette level for details, they can have the general manager do almost everything else if they want to, and not.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Mm-hmm (affirmative). Wow. I think we need to add the raising money to the list of [crosstalk 00:09:46].
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Well, don't you think though, Hal, that the job of a general manager has really changed over time? I feel like it's gotten much harder and much more... And some of that is because there are a lot of producers who haven't done it before, and they need the general manager. Most producers aren't you and/or my current boss, Jeffrey Seller. Most of them don't know, and with projections.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I like to talk about projections. When I first started in this business, no one used projections in their shows. But now, everyone does. That's a whole new department that needs to be managed, right? And so I look at all the new departments that have come about since I've been doing it, and how much harder it is.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Yeah, I hadn't thought about that. That's an excellent point. We've just made everything get more and more complicated.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Let me ask. How did you become a general manager? How did you start in the business, and how did you find your way to being a partner in Bespoke, and then moving on and managing the world domination of Hamilton, as it were? Can you talk a little about that?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
The short story is I went to college and realized I wasn't talented enough to be on stage. So I figured I had to do something backstage, and learned a lot about production management in college. We had a very large extracurricular theater department at Brown, so I learned a lot there. And then I went to work for Jujamcyn the week after I graduated from college. From those of you who don't know, Jujamcyn is one of the three major theater owners. And I was answering their phones, and I was taking house seat orders over the phone because you couldn't do it over email then.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And I spent a year there and got to know all the aspects of the business. And then I floated around a little bit. Right before I left Jujamcyn, knowing I had done my time answering the phones, I wrote a bunch of emails to a bunch of... A man named Howard Rogut, who was a general manager, suggested I might enjoy general management. So he helped me, and I wrote resumes and letters to every general manager in the business, one of whom was Nina Lannan Associates.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I didn't hear back, and went and took a couple little jobs. I worked at William Morris for a minute. I worked at the public for a minute. I worked for Bob Cole for a minute. And then about a year later, I got a note from a woman named Amy Jacobs. Sorry, a phone call from a woman named Amy Jacobs, saying, "We just pulled your resume out of a file that we had. We're looking for someone to come answer our phones and run things to the bank and do stuff." And she was Nina Lannan Associates's chief assistant. And I went to work there, and that was in 1998. And I was there for 18 years.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wow, wow. That's a great story. You just knew you needed to be in this industry, and just kept at it until it happened. I love that.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I mean, I do remember that starting, like I said, answering the phones and taking the deposit checks to the bank. And then one day, one of our other colleagues was sick. And so Nina said to me, "I need a budget for this reading of a show called Tom Sawyer that we were doing." And I was like, "What do you mean a budget?" She was like, "I need a budget. I need you to tell me how much it's going to cost to do this reading." She was like, "Go on Excel and make a budget." I was like, "What's Excel?"
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I remember that moment, because I just had to go figure it out. And that was the first minute that I remember going from being an assistant to being like, "Oh my God, budgets. That's so fun." I know I'm crazy, but it was so fun. And then from there on, I was off and running. And I loved, and I still love... And I say to people who think about wanting to be a general manager, "You have to really love business. And you have to really love negotiating. And you have to really have patience, because people are going to ask you for things that you can't afford all the time. And they're part of your team, and you have to say yes."
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
My former partner [Devon Kudel 00:14:23] at Bespoke, we say that his greatest talent is talking to someone and walking away having them think that he said yes, when he flat out said no.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wait. I think he did that to me once.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Probably twice. I do not have that talent. Everyone walks away from me going, "Oh, she just turned me down."
Hal Luftig - Host:
Hilarious, hilarious. Thank you for this. You led me into what my next question is, and I'm sure our listeners would love to know. What is the process of figuring out a budget? What goes into that process for you?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I will say that it is all built on those who have come before, right? Every budget that I've ever made is built on the foundation of having done it before, which is why the first time you do one, it's really hard.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Every office, I will say, has their own format for a budget. But they're all pretty much the same. You know that you are going to have to build a physical production for your show, right? So you have a budget for a ll of those. You know you're going to have to hire a creative team, and they have to make fees, either based on what the union says they have to make or what they get paid in the industry. So you have a section for that. You know you're going to have salaries for people once you start rehearsals and really get the show running. So you have a section for that. You know you're going to have general and administrative, so insurance and taxes and office fees and union benefits and an opening night part. So you have a section for that. And then you have a development section. And as you know, every show has a different path of development. Some cost a lot more than others.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So basically, you start with all of these categories, and you have them all listed on a piece of paper. And you fill in the things that are designated by a union, and you know what the union minimum is. So you put that in, so that there's those you know you have. And you get the answers to that by calling your creative team. "So how many actors do you think are in this show?" And then the producer comes in and says, "No, no, no, you can't have that many." So we go back to the creative team and says, "The producer says you can't have that many." No, no, no. We never throw the producer under the bus.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Okay, I'll let my listeners believe that. But continue, please.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Okay, so if you have 30 actors on stage and... Is this a heavy costume show, Mr. Gregg Barnes, costume designer? Should I be thinking that I need 10 dresses or nine dressers? I keep using Legally Blonde as an example. "Jerry and Mitchell, are you going to think you're going to want projections? So should I add that department or no?" And all of these questions start to get...
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And a lot of them, you don't know when you're first starting. Because the show hasn't been designed, and sometimes the designers haven't even been chosen when you want to start raising money for this. So you're just taking bits and pieces of information that you can get from the creative team, bits and pieces of information that you get from the union minimums, and experience of how much does a set cost for a big musical. How much are the lighting packages? How much does it cost to orchestrate a 23 musician band as opposed to an eight musician band?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And a lot of it is guesswork with knowledge behind it, with experience behind it. And then you give it to the producer, and then they faint.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Yeah, I was going to ask. What happens when a producer or an artistic team changes their mind? They tell you they want one thing, and now you're building the set, or it's about... And they realize they want something else or an added part to that set. What happens in that situation? Because I'm sure that must happen a lot, right? People change-
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
All the time. I mean, pretty much on every show ever. Well, when you are building your budget, you always build in a contingency. And it can be anywhere from a flat amount to a 10% amount. And you usually build that in for two reasons. One, not every show makes money during previews because you're working really hard and making changes and spending money on rehearsals during the day. So you want to have some money in a contingency in case you need it for those.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And the other reason is because a show is a living, breathing project and product. And it changes so much from when it is first birthed in the brains of authors, producer, and director to when it gets up on its feet in a rehearsal room and on a stage. So you have to have room to make changes.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Now, the other little thing I'll tell you... All my fellow general managers are going to get really mad at me. But the other thing you do is you never tell everybody how much money you have in the budget for the physical production. You hold a little back, because they're always going to make changes. And then you can go and say to your producer, "Okay, I don't have to touch the contingency. We can give them that." It's all a negotiation.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And I actually think this is another... To answer your earlier question, this is another part of the job that a producer can really be helpful with, and sometimes really does. I mean, I can't make the decision about how much money to spend. It's not my money, it's the money that the producers have raised. So ultimately, I have to come to you as a producer and say, "If you make this decision, you have this much left to do X, Y, or Z." And it's a negotiation usually.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Yeah. I'm living proof of that, actually, if you remember. During Blonde, Jerry had decided with David Rockwell towards the end of the process of building, if you remember this story, that they wanted... Delta Nu had to have neon lights that said Delta Nu. And Jerry was quite convinced that would make all the difference. And I was freaking out, and I went to you and said, "Maggie, they want to do this, and Jerry really feels strongly that it will help the storytelling. And where are we going to get the money?" You said, "It's okay. We have a little [inaudible 00:21:32] away that no one knows about." I was like, "Oh my God, that's brilliant." And it turned out to be a great decision. I'll never [inaudible 00:21:40].
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
It did. But why don't you tell the story instead about the bike, the-
Hal Luftig - Host:
Oh. What Maggie is talking about. This is funny. I bet a lot of people don't remember these things.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Because it never saw the stage, actually. One performance.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Right. And they only lasted on the street of New York for about five minutes because they were dangerous. But they were a thing called a party bike, and it was a circular bicycle that six people could sit on and all pedal. And somebody had the ability to steer it, which Jerry saw on the street one day coming down Broadway. Actually, the mayor quickly pulled them off the street, because they're dangerous. You can't really control where they go. And there's six people on this thing in the middle of traffic. So they lasted for 10 minutes.
Hal Luftig - Host:
But Jerry saw it and said, "I have to have one, because the Delta Nu sisters would definitely have that. And it needs to pedal across the stage." And we kept saying, "Jerry, no, I'm sorry. That's a $20,000 build." They were very expensive.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Yeah, they were $20,000. You're absolutely right.
Hal Luftig - Host:
And he just, again, insisted it's part of the storytelling. "We have to show that these girls, what their idea of fun is," and all that.
Hal Luftig - Host:
So we said, "Okay." It was delivered. We were doing our first tech rehearsal in San Francisco, where we were doing our tryout. The bike came on, and as I said, you can't really steer these things accurately. So it came on from stage left. It tried to make its way to stage right, and the girls almost fell in the orchestra pit. So we said, "Okay, that has to go. There's a waste of 20 grand." But it just disappeared, right? We never saw it again. It was cut from the show on a Tuesday afternoon. Wednesday, it was just gone, and nobody knew where it went.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And I really wanted to sell it on eBay. But it was just gone.
Hal Luftig - Host:
I know, I know. I remember, we wanted to have at least one try it before... You, me, I forget who else, Kristen, Mike. We were all going to get on the party bike and pedal down San Francisco Street.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
But interestingly, that is a semi-small, but still a large, ticket item that represents how when a creative person feels really, really passionate about something, as a producer, you want to support them. You hired them to deliver an artistic vision. If they need a party bike, you want to be able to give it to them, even if you're thinking to yourself, "I don't know if you need a party bike."
Hal Luftig - Host:
Right, right, exactly, exactly.
Hal Luftig - Host:
So with that in mind, and I'm not fishing here, but in your opinion then, in those kind of situations, what makes a good producer?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
It's a really good question, because... I think that you have to find a way to make sure your creative team feels supported in their vision, and also understanding that... Ultimately, you as a producer, your responsibility is to the investors who put their money in. And this creative team agreed to do this show with you at the helm as the producer, which means they trust you. And they trust your business instinct, as well as your aesthetic. And that sometimes, you have to say no to them when it's really painful, and you have to keep saying no. And they have to trust that you're only going to do that when you really, strongly feel it is not in the best interest of the show, and it's really not going to add enough to give you the bang for the buck.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And then in terms of supporting your general manager, the best producers are the ones that either say to you, "Maggie, you're going to go say no. Then they're going to come to me, and I'm going to say yes. I'm telling you that right now, so be ready." And then you're okay, because you're like, "Okay great, I know I'm the no guy, and they're going to be the yes guy." The hardest thing for a general manager is when a producer says, "No, no, no, you have to say no. I'm going to say no. We're going to say no." And then you have said no, pushed no, probably gotten in a fight with the creative team no. And then the producer says yes, which ultimately undermines your ability next time as a GM to say no.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So it's best when the producer and the GM have their role set up beforehand.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wow. I just learned something very important. Thank you, Maggie. Because I have to say, I'm probably guilty of what you just described.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Well, it's hard, it's hard. You're not living in the day-to-day dollars that the GM is of the budget. You're not thinking. You're thinking about delivering the best show possible, which is your job as well. Which is why I've always said to producers, "Just tell me if you're going to want to say yes to this, or if you think you might want to. I'll soft pedal a no, and then you can come in." As a producer and GM, you have to know your creative team, and which creative team members... The first thing they're going to do is call the producer and say, "That general manager said no. They're terrible. You have to tell them no."
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I think that the GM producer relationship is in fact the most important relationship business-wise.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wow, terrific. That's a terrific answer, and I couldn't agree more.
Hal Luftig - Host:
One of the questions I think that our listeners would love to know from a general manager's perspective is... Let's talk about that black cloud, ticket prices. How do you, when you're making a budget, calculate what a ticket price needs to be?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Well, that's a really good question. And it is a bit of a guessing game. When you are creating your budget, you're creating what we call a pro-forma or a breakeven, which shows you how much income you have to bring in on a weekly basis in ticket sales in order to meet all your expenses of the show ongoing, and then make enough profit to put a little bit back towards paying back the upfront costs.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So sometimes, you are literally looking at how much you have to be able to bring in in a week at X theater in order to back into a reasonable number of weeks it might take to recoup your upfront expenses, based on your operating expenses. If you're looking at a big theater and you say, "Well, oh my God, I have to bring in $1.5 million over 75 weeks every week to break even," then you have to go back to your budget and fix it. And you also might need to raise your ticket prices.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So I will say, ticket prices, at least in the last several years on Broadway, to me, with the exception of premium prices, there isn't much variability. I feel like all the musicals have the same prices, and they go up every season or two, and plays the same way. Where you can get lost, and where you can get found, is discounting and premium prices, which... And now, the ability to dynamically price.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I think everybody sets their prices on the market prices, right? Wherever the market is, that's where we set our prices. Then the show is up and running, and you're seeing where your demand is. And if your demand is good, you can start to take a look at those market prices and [inaudible 00:30:23] them up, a couple dollars here, a couple dollars there, raise the rear mezzanine which usually was 40. Raise it to 45. The demand is there. And on the other side, if you come out and you're not seeing it there, then you have to look at your discounting. And how can you get the audience in to love it enough at a discount price to hopefully then be able to offset it with some higher pricing later?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Dynamic pricing, which was very late to come to our industry, I think, as opposed to the airline industry or others, and even the sporting industry, it allows you to fudge your prices. Not fudge, but move your prices to help you when the demand is there. I think the hardest lesson that I've had on many shows that I've loved and worked on so hard is that if the demand isn't there, it really doesn't matter what your price is. You can't price your way out of a show that people don't want to see.
Hal Luftig - Host:
That is true, that is true. Who was it, Sondheim, that said in one of his flops, "They stayed away in droves." If there's no demand, you're right, you're right, you're right.
Hal Luftig - Host:
And I just want to say, and maybe this is a topic that we can have when I have you back, is we can talk about the ways that people... Because the other thing I always hear is, "I can't afford to go to the theater." And I think it'd be a really interesting discussion on, "Yes, there are," and to say the ways that that can happen, through lotteries, through discounts, all these other sites. I always bristle a little bit about that, because there are ways. You have to do a little extra work, but...
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And you might have to wait a little while. But yes, there are ways.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Can you talk about one of the more challenging shows you've worked on, and perhaps what made that either challenging or difficult?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Oh yeah. I mean, I think any general manager worth their salt will tell you that they're all challenging in different ways. I will tell you that I've had a lot of... I mean, Legally Blonde was challenging. But there was so much joy in that on that I would never look at that as one of my most challenging, because the joy offset the challenge. There are some that are challenging and not as joyful.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I would say that one of the hardest shows I've worked on was Motown. And the reason is, is it was hard top to bottom. And I will say right now, working with Kevin McCollum as a producer has been one of the great joys of my career. I think he's so smart and funny, and I had a great time. And also, being able to work with Barry Gordy. I mean, who can say that in their life, right? I mean, that was amazing, too.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So it wasn't about the people per se. It was about the dynamics of all the levels of approvals that you had to go through. You're dealing with a brand, a huge brand that has ownership. The music is owned by Sony and Barry Gordy. And you're doing a show about all people who... Many of whom are alive right now, and you have to get life rights. Then also, there are challenges in having your book writer be the person whose story it was. And someone who's never written a musical before, that's really hard. Writing a musical is really hard, as you know.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And then dealing with handling a topic that everybody felt so close to. Everyone feels like they know Diana Ross, they know Stevie Wonder, they know The Temptations. And at every turn, you had to stop and make sure you were doing everything service, and making the show match what people have in their minds about the music, right? When you do a jukebox musical, you really want everyone to feel like it's the music they know and love. But you also want it to be Broadway, right? So there's a little bit of that.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I will also say, it was a massive cast, a very big cast of people. And many people making Broadway debuts, many people who hadn't been on Broadway. We had been really lucky enough to find some cast members who had been living in Detroit just hanging out, and happened to be really, really successful and amazing, and found them on a video.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
And so I think getting that group together and keeping everybody happy and on the same page when the material that they felt like they were delivering was so personal to them, and not something at that point that was reflected on Broadway all that much. The Color Purple had done it. But at the moment that Motown was in, it was really reflecting the way the country looked in a way that a lot of shows weren't. And that, I think, put a lot of pressure on those actors to deliver things that I think wasn't just entertaining every night. So keeping everybody together.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
It also was a huge cast, and it was an incredibly expensive show. So from the business standpoint, it was very challenging, even when there were tons of people coming. It was awesome. I mean, we really had great grosses for the first year and a half of the show. But it was such an expensive show. And to deliver a show that carries five decades, yeah, you need different wigs for every person in every scene. We had eight hair people, 14 dressers, massive numbers of people backstage.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
So for me as a GM, the biggest challenge, and it was sort of heartbreaking, was to see how great the show was being appreciated by people. And yet we couldn't make a ton of profit every week because the expenses were so high. That was very challenging.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Wow, wow. I'm in the business and I didn't know that. So thank you for sharing.
Hal Luftig - Host:
As we wind up, because I know you, and because I've worked with you, and because of what you just said, people may think that general managers are only about contracts and numbers. But I also know that you particularly are very creative. In your work, when or how do you feel the most creative? Because I know you are.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Oh, well thank you for saying that. Really to me, when I'm working on a show that is just on the margins of being able to make sense to happen for financial reasons, like you just can't get the budget down and deliver the show you want to deliver, for me it's about trying to find a way to change the structure of the budget, or the royalty package, or some way to make sure that the creative team and the actors and everybody working on the show feels valued for their work, because they need to be, but also is willing to maybe work together to bring everything down. For me, being creative is redesigning a budget and making people feel good about it.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I have to say, some producers, as a GM, want to know your creative thoughts about the show, and some don't. And obviously, that is not what I do. But it is really awesome to work with a producer that trusts your business instincts enough and knows you well enough to be able to say, "Do you have any creative notes either?" As GMs, we get very in there. We're really in there. We're watching all the changes, we're watching all the readings, we're watching everything. And many of us are working on 15 shows over the span of two years, so we really see how things work and how things don't. So it's nice to be asked. I don't necessarily think that I have good creative ideas, but I like to be able to share in it and give the producer my thoughts, based on my experience.
Hal Luftig - Host:
I didn't want to interrupt, but I just want to say for the record, I completely disagree with your statement that you don't have good creative ideas.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
I mean, look at my hair. It's all pink right now. There you go.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Hey Mags, this has been great. It's been great fun. But as they say, all good things must come to an end. But before we finish, I'm going to ask you three rapid fire questions. I ask these to every guest on the show. And the rule is, you can't think about it. First thing comes into your mind, you have to say. Okay, ready? Yeah, it's like a Rorschach test.
Hal Luftig - Host:
So first one is, what is your favorite musical? That's great.
Hal Luftig - Host:
And the second one, what is the wackiest moment you ever experienced in the theater?
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Being backstage with Al Pacino and Marisa Tomei on Salome, watching them walk around before the show, getting into character, talking to themselves as their characters, and being... I know they were in character. But to me, I was like, "What the heck is going on here?" It was completely wacked out.
Hal Luftig - Host:
This is great. See, this is why you're creative.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Okay, and the final question. Riffing on your answer to that, and the lesson learned from that was-
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Stay away from actors before half-hour. After half-hour, I mean. Just don't try to talk to them, because you have no idea what their process is for getting ready.
Hal Luftig - Host:
That's genius. I think so far, you've won the best answer to that question, that award.
Hal Luftig - Host:
All right. Well thank you so much. That was great. Thank you so much, Maggie.
Maggie Brohn - Guest:
Oh, thank you Hal for having me. This has been really nice. Thank you.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Thank you for tuning into this episode of Broadway Biz. If you have any questions about today's episode or the business of Broadway in general, let me know on Instagram, @broadwaybizpodcast, or via email at broadwaybiz@halluftig.com. Be sure to follow me at Broadway Biz Podcast for updates on everything Broadway biz, the business of Broadway.
Hal Luftig - Host:
Broadway Biz is part of the Broadway Podcast Network. Huge thanks to Dori Bernstein, Alan Seales, and Brittany Bigelow. This has been produced by [Dillon Marie Parin 00:42:20] and Kevin Connor, and edited by Derek Gunther. Our fabulous theme music is by Mel Benjamin and [Laurence O'Keefe 00:42:29].
Hal Luftig - Host:
To learn more about Broadway Biz, visit bpn.fm/broadwaybiz.